Chrissy 0:00
Chris, welcome to The Dogs of our lives Podcast. I'm Chrissy Messick, your host and owner of the nature of animals. My dog training and behavior consulting business, get ready to hear journeys from challenging behaviors to heartwarming successes and everything in between. Our episodes will feature personal stories from clients, colleagues and professionals, all centered around our favorite animal companion, friends. Each episode, you'll gain insights and valuable tools from those that have walked the path that you are on with your dog. We'll discuss mindset shifts, growth, training, tips, lessons, learned and so much more. By the end of each episode, you'll feel inspired have a deeper understanding of your dog and walk away with actionable steps to improve both of your lives. Hello, hello. Today, I talk with Emily Tronetti, who has a doctorate in humane education for humans and non human animals. We talk about her path to get there, how all animals have their own intelligence, her work with farmed animals and those special projects she's working on how her dogs help her with her own depression, anxiety and much more. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did, so let's dig in. Hello, Emily.
Emily 1:14
Hi Chrissy,
Chrissy 1:15
thank you for being on the podcast. I'm so excited to talk with you about, I would say your journey and just your smart brain that you have.
Emily 1:28
Thanks. I'm excited to be here with you and to share my journey and to also get to hang out with your smart brain, because you have a smart break
Chrissy 1:41
too. Oh, thank you. Okay, so we were just talking about a little bit earlier that we kind of first met when we were both volunteering at the Humane Society Boulder Valley, and we first met at the we were volunteering for the doggy dash.
Emily 1:59
Yep, yep, which, for those of you who might be wondering what that is, I can imagine people thinking that it's like, you know, a bunch of dogs dashing, um, but, uh, but yeah, no, it's like, I think I'm trying to remember it's like a, like a 5k or like a little, like a walk that people can sign up for and raise money for themselves, and you can do it with your with your dog. And then they also have some really great like vendors. And it was, it was a really fun time, but my definitely, the highlight was getting to meet you. Yeah,
Chrissy 2:34
I remember us meeting under the tent, yeah, yeah. So can you just tell us a little bit about yourself, where you live now, and what you're doing and the animals in your lives right now,
Emily 2:50
definitely. So we can start with my more like professional intro, and then I can get a little bit more personal. So as Chrissy mentioned, I'm Emily Tronetti. My pronouns are she, her. I have a few different credentials related to animal behavior and training, and I also have a Master of Science in anthrozology, which is the study of the relationships and interactions between humans and other animals. Just a few months ago, I graduated with my Doctorate in Education
Chrissy 3:22
at the ripe old age of what? Oh
Emily 3:24
my gosh. How old am I? I'm 33 Wow. I being put on the spot to share my age with the world. The way to go. Chrissy, it's, it's funny how, like, you get to an age where you just can't remember anymore. You have to, like, really think about it and do math, which I'm also not great at, despite having my doctorate. So yeah, I just got my doctorate in education, also called an EDD, and my specialization in that program was humane education, which is something I'm very passionate about. So I that's what I do. I offer humane, humane education, specifically with adults, as well as consulting on education and animal well being through my business coexistence, education and consulting and so kind of for to answer the personal, more personal, parts of your question, I just moved back to my home state of New York. I I've lived in three other states the last like 12 years. I lived in Colorado, which is where I met you, Chrissy. Then I lived in Washington, and then in Virginia, and now I am back in New York, just outside of the Rochester area. I live with my spouse, whose name is Kurt, and my two senior dogs, Eldo the Papillon, who is 14, or he will be 14 in January. And then Ayla, the Border Collie mix, who is we adopted her from a shelter. So we're not exactly sure what her age is, but we think she'll be. About 13, like, around this time of year. So, yeah, those are my, my, that's my crew that I'm hanging with these days.
Chrissy 5:07
Oh, they were just bait, because we, we met about nine years ago, and so they were just babies then, and now they're senior doggies,
Emily 5:15
I know, oh my goodness, yeah, it's, you know, as as you know, it's, it's so strange and rough to see them age, but also really beautiful. Like, it's interesting how their behavior changes, and they just become, you know, so much more, like comfortable, and I don't know, then a journey of mixed emotions with with seeing them age, and then having to navigate everything that comes with that.
Chrissy 5:40
I know there's, that's a whole other podcast of living with the senior dog. You know for sure, for sure, I will definitely do that one. Okay, well, thank you for telling us a little bit about yourself. Yeah, your journey, like everywhere you've lived, and you're just journey. We'll talk about that in a little bit, but I find it very fascinating and exciting. So we'll go back a little bit in time. And I always ask everyone this question, because I feel like it's so important to get a feel, you know, where people come from, and how that sets a foundation for their mindset and values and beliefs, and just how they change over time, or don't change over time. But just tell us a little bit about your childhood growing up, and what you learned about values and beliefs and how they shaped your thoughts, feelings and attitude toward animals.
Emily 6:29
I really love this question. I love that you ask everybody this question, because I think it's really important to just like you said, like it's really important to think about where these beliefs and values that we have where they came from, it can be really telling when we stop and reflect on why we hold the beliefs that we hold, when we consider like, where they came from again, why like? Why do I believe this? It's a really important question to ask ourselves. So for me, you know, I think back on kind of growing up in a very rural agricultural community in Western New York, where it was, you know, it was, it was normal to to farm and hunt other animals. You know, a lot of people, including people in my family, had dogs that lived outside or cats that lived outside. And then I also, I grew up surrounded by by companion animals. You know, I had dogs and cats and guinea pigs and rabbits and fish. One of my grandfathers had horses. You know, I just grew up surrounded by other animals. And I also think a lot about my mom, who just has so much empathy for everybody. She's a nurse, so that's, you know, kind of speaks, speaks for itself, but she also has so much empathy for other animals. And I know that a lot of my passion for this work I inherited from her. But, you know, as I'm thinking about it, as I'm really, you know, as I'm reflecting on on those different pieces, I realized that I had this that I grew up with this very, these very kind of contradictory beliefs about other animals, right? So some animals were, you know, we use and exploit for our benefit, you know, we use them for farming or hunting, or a family member had hunting dogs, you know, they were. They had a purpose. They were used for certain things and ultimately to benefit the humans, right? And then, but then there are the other animals that we share our homes with that, you know, we that we consider to be our family members. And so I think that's just something really interesting to think about, like the differences, like the different values that we assign to different animals to reflect on, maybe why that is, and then even, and Chrissy, we kind of mentioned this when we were chatting earlier, like, when we really dig in to our relationships that we have, even with our companion animals, there are some really interesting kind of beliefs and maybe some biases wrapped up and how we view them and treat them, you know, like I, I think that We still, even though we might call them like our family members, we often still maybe have this unconscious bias that there's still other right, that they, the human you know, is still like the most important being. Our well being takes priority over theirs, that we know what's best for them, that we should always be in control of them, that we have power over them, and so I think it's interesting. And I think, like, you know, and I just want to, like, reiterate that I think those beliefs and biases are often very unconscious, like, we don't necessarily, you know, we're not consciously, necessarily thinking of those things, but I do think that they're there. They're just kind of conditioned into us like, you know, we all kind of grow up believing that, well, of course, I'm the human. I'm smarter, I know better. I have to make choices for the these animals. I have to be in control of them, doing in real time, this kind of critical reflection exercise, I guess, um, you know, I think that these beliefs. May fuel a lot of the practices that kind of ultimately cause suffering of other animals and harm our relationships with them. We talk a lot about, like, training and behavior together, given, you know, our background, like, I think that could be, you know, some of the, some of the fuel for why we see training methods that rely on punishment and pain and fear, because there's this underlying belief that, you know, we must have power over them, that we are more important than them, that we have to control them. You know, I think we could literally spend an entire podcast talking about this, but I think, you know, I just, I just bring this up, I guess, to kind of to demonstrate that something as simple as you know, what did you learn about animals as a child can really start to like bring to light some really interesting things, not only about our childhood, but some of our kind of systemic underlying beliefs that then inform these cultural practices around how we treat other animals. So, you know, this is just something that I think I think about a lot, and at least through my own work, I really hope to just kind of inspire more discussions around these things. I think critical thinking and curiosity is so important and kind of acknowledging that we all have these underlying biases and assumptions, and once we acknowledge that, we can then think about, well, how is it that we move forward together in a way that, like, promotes more equitable and compassionate ways of living with them that isn't relying on having to have control over them or having to, you know, have power over them.
Chrissy 11:40
You brought up a couple of great things that as you were talking, I thought about it. But one is the the dichotomy of contrasting, you know, like, I think in India, cows are considered sacred, or I think it's there, whereas here, like, dogs, we consider as sacred. And so it's just interesting that cultural differences and like, how, like you said, Some animals, you know, are used for certain purposes, and you know, some animals we have as pets, and so, yeah, that's an interesting dichotomy. But also, I think even with kids, like raising kids, so many people want to control their kids and pave their path for them. And I know Kevin and I have worked really hard to just let our children be who they are. Yeah, maybe we want to say, oh, like, You should do this instead. But, you know, we really hold back and just say, Okay, you do your thing. You be who you are. You do what you're going to do. Obviously, we have safe boundaries. You know, we're not going to go let them just do whatever they want, but, but we let them be who they are. And I've just learned to do the same thing with our dogs, you know, just let them be who they are. Maybe, you know, maybe I want to take ginger to the pub, but, but she would absolutely hate it, so I'm not going to take her to the pub, but it's just a matter of releasing control, a feeling of having to control so many things and just let kids and dogs be who they're going to be with safe boundaries, of course. But yeah, you brought up so many things. So anyway, thank you for answering that.
Emily 13:12
Yeah, of course. And I think that's such a good point, you know, kind of making that connection between, you know, with, even within, like, the human family dynamic, right? There's these, there's this kind of this power structure, like hierarchy, and that the parents know best, and that they must be in control of the kids. And, you know, and I even think about that too, is like, how, even as we age, you know, like as Chrissy just outed me to everybody, I'm 33, years old. But when I'm with my parents, I like, revert. Sometimes I feel like I'm like, reverting back to, like, whatever you say, you know, like, yeah, a lot of interesting things kind of around these ideas of like power and control and and also a lot of opportunities for different ways of having relationships with with our kids, with our with the companion animals we share our lives with, with other beings in our community. What do those relationships look like if we do let go a little bit like you said, if we do, you know, really question and then challenge this. Need to be in control and to have power over other beings? Yeah,
Chrissy 14:21
yeah. And this is just a squirrel moment real quick. But you know, like behavior is just like a one cog in the wheel. It's just like a symptom of so many other things. And if we're just so focused on behavior, we're missing, you know, the root issue at hand, that's why working with dogs anymore, I'm just like, Okay, well, this is the behavior that's showing up, but let's look at a bunch of other things as well. Okay, so you have an interesting path, from where you started to where you're you are now, I'm grateful to be a big part of that path. You know, just from like beginning of volunteering through the Academy of dog trainers, and then you just kind of kept going on. Your way. But can you share a bit about this and what kept pushing you to get your doctorate and just dig deeper?
Emily 15:06
Yeah, I mean, I agree you were, you were definitely a part of that journey for me, and it was, it was so great to meet you and be inspired by you. But, yeah, going back even to before we met, I started volunteering at a local animal shelter when I was in high school, and continued to do do so throughout undergrad. And actually, my bachelor's degree didn't have anything to do with animals, although I always found a way to, you know, like, incorporate them into different projects and whatnot. But I received my degree in journalism and mass communication, and I had been working as a professional photographer, but then I ended up moving to a new state, Colorado. And while I was working on building my photography business, I decided to start applying for jobs to work with companion animals and to kind of provide some context for that, like I, I kind of just, I grew up with this mindset that, like, the only way to work with other animals was to become a vet, right? I knew that I that wasn't for me, and so I just never really entertained the idea of working with them in a different way. So that's kind of why I went, you know, this other path, and was, you know, doing the photography and journalism. And so when I moved to this city, you know, very different from the rural area I grew up in, and seeing like, job postings for things like veterinary assistant or shelter worker like, I got really excited and thought, Well, hey, while I'm building up my photography business, why don't I try seeing if I can get a job working with animals and seeing what it's like, and I got a job as a veterinary assistant, and that just changed everything. What do they say? Like the rest was history, and that is very much the case, like I completely pivoted my career to working with other animals and the humans, of course, who care for them. And I think it's been, I want to say, like 12 years, or over 12 years, and I've worked in so many different settings, worked and volunteered and in different settings and roles, and kind of between my experiences in these various settings, and then, of course, sharing my home with my dogs and my cat. I just kept having so many questions, and I just wanted to learn everything I could about other animals and our relationships with them. So I went on to pursue my master's degree in answer zoology that still didn't like satiate, you know, this desire to learn. So I ended up pursuing a few different like certificates and certifications and animal training and behavior like the Academy for dog trainers, which you know both you and I have done Chrissy through that process of learning and also working in these fields, I learned about myself that I also really love teaching and sharing what I'm learning with with others, and helping people to like critically think about other animals and our relationships with them, and and I just felt like I wanted to become even better at that, like I wanted to kind of hone my skills as an educator, and I wanted to have a greater impact. So there's this, you know, concept called humane education, which has been described in different ways over the years. You know that the term has been around for a very long time, but the Institute for humane education is this great organization that that teaches about humane education and and they recently within, you know, like, I think it was like three or four years ago, now, partnered with Antioch University to develop and provide a doctorate, an EDD specializing in humane education. So when I learned about that, I got really excited. It felt just so perfect for what I wanted to do, it was like a doctorate in education that also not only talked about the importance of educating humans about the issues that are happening in our world, but it also like included, included in those issues were issues related to non human animals. So it just felt perfect. So I applied, and I got in, and fast forward a few years, and I just graduated a few months ago, so kind of through that whole process, and leading up to that process, and now even beyond that, you know, getting my doctorate, I just, there's just been this, this desire to teach people how to like, not only compassionately care for their dogs, but to to kind of expand those circles of compassion to include other beings, you know, not only dogs and cats and our companion animals, but other humans and, of course, farmed animals and wildlife and the natural world. So, yeah, that's kind of been what's been kind of tearing me through this, this journey, if you will. Yeah,
Chrissy 19:58
I think that what I've enjoyed. Thing you do is expand it, not only starting with dogs, but then expanding it to other animals, you know, wildlife and farmed animals, like you said, and just all animals. Because you know, every animal, every human, has their own intelligence. A Bumblebee is not less than a dog or whatever. You know what I mean. So they all have their own intelligence and place in the world, and so I've really enjoyed seeing you like, dig deeper and go deeper into that. That's been really fun.
Emily 20:28
Yeah, thank you. I and I agree we all, we all have our own special and important place in this world and deserve to thrive in it. How
Chrissy 20:38
has your relationship with your dogs impacted how you approached your relationship with other species, which, you know, include farmed animals and wildlife.
Emily 20:46
That's a great question. So I have had many really amazing relationships with both dogs and cats. I, you know, gotta mention the cats throughout my life, and I've always felt, you know, such deep connections with them and had so much empathy for them, but especially the dogs I have now, Ayla and Aldo, they have really pushed me to expand my perspectives. They they've both, you know, they both struggled with fear and anxiety in different ways and becoming more aware of, like, what they're experiencing, and then trying to help them feel more safe has really just changed me, for lack of a better, you know, like, it just, I mean, that's what it is. It's been, you know, very impactful. You know, just as an example, my dog, Ayla, she is terrified of fireworks, and she just shuts down. You know, she starts shaking. If I'm reflecting back on like, how many times in my life have I been so afraid that I have just completely shut down and could do nothing but shake? I mean, there have been very, very, very few times those experiences are so traumatic, right? And then with our dogs, you know, Ayla, fireworks happen at least once a year, you know, usually more. And yet, there's not a lot of discussion about how traumatic that really is. And so seeing that and really acknowledging that was just really opened up my eyes as to, like, what, what these animals are going through. And I think also working in vet hospitals and in animal shelters played a big role in kind of this, this way of thinking as well. So, you know, of course, in these in these settings, the goal is to provide care and safety, you know, a safe place for the these animals to provide help, like, to to ensure that they are healthy. But of course, they can be really scary and traumatizing places for animals, because they don't know or understand where they are or what's happening to them, or why they're being restrained or kept in a, you know, in a kennel, like they don't they don't understand that we are trying to care for them. So, so oftentimes animals in these settings are very afraid, and seeing this for myself, working in these settings, I mean, it like literally pained me and kept me up at night, you know, thinking about how this must feel for them. You know, through all of this, I just felt like motivated to learn more about their emotions and their behaviors so that I could, you know, better understand them, so that I could help them, you know, and I came to really appreciate just the depth in which they experience the world, how they experience curiosity and immense joy, but also immense pain and fear. And so it just started to open up my my heart, you know, and my mind to other animals. And of course, you know, at first this was dogs and cats, you know, that that I was working with, that I was really surrounded by, like, you know, at work, but also in my home. But then, when I started to learn about other species and like, what other species experience, like, what, you know, what humans do to other animals, it just became like impossible for me to not also apply that level of empathy to them, you know, like, of course, if I'm applying this, this level of empathy to dogs and cats. I just, I felt like I had to also apply that level of empathy to cows and pigs and chickens and mice and all other beings. I've just become really passionate about, about trying to do everything I can to, you know, inspire humans to reflect on the fear and suffering that we may be causing, often unintentionally or unconsciously, or we might be doing simple things in our day to day lives that we don't realize are then perpetuating systems and practices that do harm animals out of our sight. And so I just want to help people think about those things and and hopefully, you know. Know, inspire people to work together towards creating a world where we really all can feel safe and thrive.
Chrissy 25:06
There's so much that we don't see, like the the testing, the lab testing, all that the cultural things that happen in other countries, which are horrific, it can just be so overwhelming sometimes. So anyway, I know what you're saying about that, and one of the most important things about me doing this podcast is to really shed a light on what our animals teach us, and if we connect with them, with our heart and our mind, it's like such a wonderful relationship, and we can learn so much from them, but if we are only just thinking with our mind and trying to have a transaction. We're not going to learn anything. And so I just feel like the dogs that we have in our lives, they're here to teach us something. They're going to help us learn it somehow. It might be painful.
Emily 25:57
Yeah,
Chrissy 25:58
it might be painful and it might not, but they can teach us so many things, and they're so patient with us.
Emily 26:04
And I just want to chime in really quick and say, like, it really can be painful, you know, like, it like for me, seeking care of myself, you know, like, like I mentioned, I grew up loving other animals, right? But like, it took a very, very long time for me to make the connections between how I was, like, participating in the harm of animals, like, through, you know, like eating them, for example, or like things like that, right? And so I and having to come to terms with, like, what does it really look like to have compassion for all animals, having to really believe that and see that and be willing to live that was a painful process, because it meant having to acknowledge, you know, my own biases and assumptions and beliefs and how they might not always have, how I might not have always been living in according like in accordance to my values, if that makes sense. You know, so and, I mean, we can, we can see the same thing when we're looking at, like, training methods, right? Like, it's really, really painful to realize that we've been hurting our dogs or causing them fear or pain. Most of us do not want to do that, but we've just been doing what we've been told. You know, we've been like, we've we've learned that, like, Oh, if my dog is barking and lunging on leash, you know, I have to pop the leash. And we don't necessarily realize that, like, oh, like, what we're actually doing is causing them pain or fear, and that's what's stopping the behavior, you know, it's and I don't want to do that. I don't want to hurt my dogs when we have to, like, really acknowledge that it hurts, because that's not who we want to be. You know, we love our dogs. At least in my experience, I feel like my dogs have taught me to let me think of the right way to say this, because I'm kind of just coming to this conclusion in real time. But like, you know, they have taught me that sometimes we have to change the way that we think, and we have to acknowledge our own, the ways that we are causing pain or suffering, and then we have to change, you know, like, for example, I used my one dog, Ayla, I used to use basically a plastic prong collar on her, because that's what I was taught by the trainers in my life at that time of how to walk a dog, when I had to, like, come to terms with that, like, had to come to terms with like, Oh, I'm hurting her. It was not a fun thing, and it didn't feel good. But then I did it, you know, I acknowledged it, and I found another way, and I think that that can be applied to so much in our lives, you know, like, Oh, I'm doing this thing that isn't really what I want to be doing, but it's what I've been taught to do, or what I've been it's what I've been taught to believe. And now I need to change and do things better. And that can be a painful, hard process sometimes, but when we do it, it's we're better for it, you know? And I think that at least that's just one of the, one of the many things that I think my dogs have have opened me up to so much more of, like, hey, like, you know what? Sometimes we do things that suck, but then we learn better, and we do better and and then the benefits of that the benefits of having a better relationship with my dogs are so worth it.
Chrissy 29:25
No change is super hard, and then these entrenched ideas and habits that we have are super hard to change, and then our ego gets in the way as well. So oh yeah, so many things, yeah, they can teach us so much. Maybe this is a little tweak in the question, but tell us about how the dogs that you've lived with have influenced you. Um, it might be a similar response, but I think you might have a little different answer,
Emily 29:50
yeah, yeah. I mean, I think there's, there's definitely, I think some kind of bigger, bigger picture or or maybe zoomed out. Um, ways that they have influenced me, kind of beyond how I perceive other animals. I mean, they, they really, I mean, my dogs have influenced all aspects of who I am and what I do, you know, like I wouldn't have been pursuing this career, this, you know, I wouldn't be on this journey if it hadn't been for for them, for my dogs, Ayla and Eldo, and then also my cat Nora, who, you know, we unfortunately had to say goodbye to her last fall after sharing our lives with her for 14 years. So she was very much a part of my life and very much influenced who I am sharing our lives with, these, these little beings. You know, it absolutely changes us, and it's changed me. And actually, I was, I was thinking about this because I was trying to think of like a salient example. And it came to me today while I was walking, trying to walk both of my dogs at the same time, which is never a good idea, because they are so different. Ayla is Ayla the Border Collie, is she wants to go? Yeah, you know she wants to go. She wants to move. She wants to do all the things slowing down is like, not okay. She's like, nope, nope, no. We got, we got things to do, places to be, whereas Eldo, my little, my old little Papillon, he wants to stop and sniff literally every single like rock, twig and blade of grass, like he's like, everything is important. It all deserves to be sniffed like it. It just made me realize that they, they both teach me a lot and in very different ways. You know, like, So full disclosure, I'm someone who has struggled with depression, which maybe we'll talk about a little bit later. And ayla, you know, she is motivating me to keep moving, to keep going, to keep pressing on, you know, and when I'm like, on a walk or walk or hike with her, which, generally speaking, I do take them separately because they're so different. But, you know, like, my walks with her are like a good workout, which is super nice because we're moving and I just feel this like, okay, like, let's keep let's keep pressing on and and then with Aldo, my the slow little guy he is, it's like the complete opposite, you know, and as someone who also struggles with anxiety, you know, I often feel like I get caught up in this kind of, like frantic, busy, ungrounded state of mind and body, you know, and and so when I'm walking with Aldo, sometimes feel almost forcibly pulled out of that, because I have to move slow. I have to go go at his pace, I have to be patient, which is, like, honestly, the thing that my dog, if I had to say, like, one thing, like, one like, what is the one way that the dog, my dogs have influenced me the most, I would say, like, they have influenced me to be more patient, because I am not. I'm not a patient person, especially on my walks with Aldo, have to be very, very patient. And so, yeah, I mean, they, they've taught me so much. And as I, you know, mentioned before, they, they inspire me to be more empathetic and kinder and more compassionate, and not only with others, but also with myself. So I am very grateful for them.
Chrissy 33:20
I know, once again, they teach us so much, and I think patience is a very similar cord with a lot of people, that dogs just teach us to be patient, and so do kids as well. Yeah, you
Emily 33:31
just mentioned
Chrissy 33:34
this a little bit, but would you be willing to share some of your personal challenges and how dogs or other species have helped you with these challenges. I know you just talked about depression.
Emily 33:44
I mean, I think, you know, I'm the type of person who I think it's really important to talk about mental health and in health in general, you know. And I certainly have struggled with, I have generalized anxiety disorder, and, you know, struggled with depression, and I also have several chronic health issues. So it's definitely been, as everyone you know can relate to life can be challenging, and I can say, say with utmost certainty that I would not have gotten through it all without my relationships with, like, the more than human animals in my life. So, you know, like, it just seems like when I've when I've needed it the most, they have helped me feel less alone and more grounded. I mean, I can think of so many examples of moments in my life where I felt really alone and, you know, my cat, Nora, jumps up on the bed and cuddles up next to me, or, you know, Aldo comes over and wants to suddenly play for, you know, like just so many moments, right, like that. And and again, they've reminded me to breathe and to slow down, which is, like, so important when we're feeling stressed and struggling. And of course, you know, they make us smile and remind us. To even when things are hard to like, find joy in those moments. Like there can be space for more than one emotion, like I can feel depressed or anxious or sad, or I can be grieving, but I can also laugh and feel joy and play with my dogs. Or, you know, so I think that, yeah, they have definitely helped me navigate some of the the many challenges that life throws at us. I feel like I am going to reiterate what I just said in response to your last question, but like I'm just, I really am so grateful for them, and I hope, I don't know I hope, I hope that I can always, even when I might be struggling, like always just come back to that gratitude for them. I think that's really important,
Chrissy 35:43
right? Have you found with them, like, when you are feeling like, somewhat depressed or or if you're like, anxious? Have you found that they intuitively just kind of come to you and help you in their own way? Have you found that, I'm sure there are so many people that can empathize, you know, with what, with depression and general anxiety. I mean, there's so much of that in the world right now, and so there's so many people that can connect with that. But do you feel like they just, can, you know, your pups intuitively, and Nora, when she was live, just kind of help you through, I mean, intuitively, yeah.
Emily 36:17
I mean, it's, it is very interesting how, you know, like, I mentioned, like, way it seems like when I have needed it the most, they're there. And of course, they're always there, you know, like, they live with me, like, but like, I just remember as a as an example, that I think just was very powerful for me. Like, I lost a family member and a few years ago, and it was very, very hard. It was sudden. And with my cat, Nora, was just like, she was never really the kind of cat who, like, wants to cuddle with with you for any length of time. She was always very, more independent, and just kind of did her own thing. And occasionally, you know, you would get some time to cuddle with her, but it was certainly more of like a treat, rather than like, you know, an everyday thing, although that very much changed as she got older. But anyway, so when this happened, I was struggling a lot, and she was just like that night, actually, the night after I found out about what happened to my family member. She was just like, cuddled with me, like, the whole night, and it was just like, I don't know, I mean, and I think part of it, I'm sure, they noticed the change in our behavior, like, I think that they are very much in tune with our behaviors and our own body language and like, like, how I am on a day to day basis, and then suddenly I'm laying in bed and crying and upset, or, you know, like tossing and turning because I can't sleep. And so I do think that they very much pick up on that as well. And, and, yeah, I think that they know that something's up, and their way of of just being who they are, you know, and they want to be close to me, and, yeah, and they just always, they do seem to know, and they always know, like, what to do, you know, like, like, I think, like, using that as an example, like, when I was grieving to that extent, in that moment, because it was so fresh. Like, if one of them had wanted to start playing or something, I probably would have been like, no, like, now is not the time. Like, I'm not. I just can't even with that right now. But you know, like Nora coming up and huddling with me while I was laying in bed, was it was what I needed. And then there are moments where, you know, maybe I am, like, angry or frustrated, or, you know, feeling, feeling a lot of things. And then Aldo starts throwing his toy around, and, like, come over here and join in and, you know, it just puts things into perspective, yeah. So, yeah, they it does. It is interesting how they seem to to know,
Chrissy 38:51
yeah. I think part of it is, a huge part is, you know, the change in our body language and our behavior. But also another thing too, is the change in our the chemical change in our body, you know, they they're scent their nose, nose like they can smell things that we can't, and they can pick up on the chemical changes in our body, which, I think, when, which, in turn, you know, helps them act as well. Yeah, we know all the the sniffing of cancer and all those kind of things they can smell. I don't know if there's research been that's been done when I'm just making this up, but I feel like dogs can tell when women are pregnant before the woman even knows. You know.
Emily 39:36
I mean, I have heard people say similar things. I would be, I don't know if there's research on that, but that would be very interesting. We'll have to do some digging after this. I mean, there's, oh yeah. I mean, they, I think that there's so much that we don't even know about what they can read based on, like you said, our chemicals, our pheromones and, I mean. Yeah, it's amazing. And we see that in other species too. I mean that communicate and, like, with echolocation and all these different Yeah, I just feel it's so exciting to me. This is kind of changing the vibe here a little bit, but it is. It's so exciting to me to think about, like, how much we don't know about other animals, and like you said earlier, like the different kinds of intelligence, like in the different ways that they know and experience the world, and the different ways that they can communicate and be in relationship with us because of their own unique ways of perceiving us and the world around us. So it's pretty amazing. And I think we we need to give them more credit for for what they can perceive and what they what they know that we don't. Yeah, yeah,
Chrissy 40:48
definitely. I agree wholeheartedly. Okay, so what is your current project, and why are you so passionate about it? I mean, we could probably guess why you're passionate about it, but what's the current What's your current project?
Emily 41:00
That's a hard question, because I tend to have a lot of projects. If you haven't been able to tell I have a lot of interests and passions, all under the umbrella of other, you know, caring for other animals. But I tend to like I was trying to think about this earlier, and I kind of feel like my project board. I think there's a better way to say this, but I think of it as like a garden, and I have, like, multiple projects, and I tend to them, you know. And I'm very lucky that I'm able to sometimes, you know, I might let one project just kind of like, do its thing for a little bit, you know, like, I'll come back to it later, and and eventually, you know, they grow, they come to fruition, or they blossom, or whatever. Trying to stick with the gardening metaphor. I don't know how it's going, but, and, yeah, so I got a lot of things going on. Is what I mean. One of the things that I've been most excited about recently is I've been collaborating with the open sanctuary project, which they're an organization that creates resources for animal sanctuaries on everything from animal care to education to just like running a nonprofit, they have some really amazing resources, and I was able to collaborate with them to develop some resources on agency and well being, specifically the farmed animal agency. And well being, it was just such a pleasure to, like collaborate with them. So kind of to provide against some some context, my dissertation for my my doctorate was essentially on farmed animal sanctuaries and education and agency. As part of that process, I talked with a lot of sanctuaries to kind of get to know like they do currently, for their education programs, kind of their own perspectives on these concepts of agency and well being. And every sanctuary that I interacted with was like, Oh yeah, the open sanctuary project is a lifesaver. Like we we have learned so much for them. They're like, the only resource that's available for sanctuaries on like compassionate care. And so it was really cool to be able to collaborate with them. And I we actually just recorded an episode for their podcast that will be really soon. So if you're a podcast person, you know, if you're, I imagine if people are listening to this, they're probably a podcast person, so definitely check out the open sanctuary podcast if you are involved with animal sanctuaries at all. But yeah, I would say that's the project that I've been kind of most excited about and proud of recently. Yeah,
Chrissy 43:33
that's awesome. And I know you always have like, a million things going on. So
Emily 43:37
we talked
Chrissy 43:41
about this a little bit before we started recording. But your next step, so you're like, kind of starting to getting into teaching. Tell us a little bit about that.
Emily 43:50
Yeah, so there's a couple universities that I will be teaching some classes for in the fall. And I'll be teaching a class on animal behavior for Hudson University, which has both a bachelor's and now a new master's program in animal behavior. So I'm really excited to be involved with that. And then Canisius University, which is where I got my master's in anthrozoology, I'll be teaching a one credit class for them on animal nonprofits. So very excited to start teaching kind of in the university space. Again, I briefly taught a certificate course for university a couple years ago and really enjoyed that. So I'm excited to kind of get back in that space of teaching, at least in that more kind of formal setting. I mean, I feel like everything I do is teaching, this is teaching, right? But, yeah, and then beyond, beyond that, I've just continuing to evolve my business, you know, grow my business coexistence, education and consulting, and I'm really hoping to just start working more or with. More like shelters and rescues and sanctuaries and other organizations to kind of help develop and refine their education programs, and particularly in ways that really center the agency and well being of the animals that they're caring for. Those are kind of the two big things that I'm thinking about as I move forward.
Chrissy 45:19
Yeah, no, those are awesome and much needed, and I don't know, for some reason I feel like shelters. I feel like there's going to be a big shift in how they are run. I don't know if that's just my own thing, but I feel like a lot of that, just the environment and how they're run, there's going to be big shifts with that, and you are a huge part of that. So thank you.
Emily 45:38
Thanks. I hope so. I mean, I there's certainly, definitely opportunity for shelters to evolve the you know, evolve the ways that they care for, for their animals, that they care for, in ways that are, you know, you know, promoting well being and all, but also ways for shelters to connect with their community members and to teach and educate their their community members and so, yeah, I'm very excited to be involved with that process and in any way that I can, you know, as we kind of hopefully start to get that process moving forward. Yeah,
Chrissy 46:14
that's good. So we've talked about many things today, but just to kind of summarize what is your most important thing that you want to get across? Or, I guess, any negative wisdom that you would like to share with our audience? That's
Emily 46:27
a tough question. I feel like we've talked about a lot of things, and we did touch on this a little bit, but I just want to mention it, because it's really important to me in my journey. But I really love the like slow down and be more present nugget of wisdom that one has definitely been a common theme in your other podcast episodes, which I've noticed as I've been listening to them. So I just wanted to mention that, but I also just really encourage folks to stay curious and to practice critical reflection, which includes really looking at what we believe and why and where that comes from, and being willing to challenge those those beliefs. Because I think that once we do that, once we really commit ourselves to just critically reflecting and thinking about our thinking, we kind of then create this space to evolve, to to reimagine ways like new ways of being in relation with with our dogs, with the other animals in our lives. And I really think that that starts with critically reflecting on who we are, what we believe, what we care about, and then being willing and ready to open up our hearts and minds to really feeling empathy and compassion, for for the other, for the beings that we care about. Yeah, I think that's what I hope people take away from from our time today.
Chrissy 47:54
Yeah, I think that's huge. And I feel like so many of us are on autopilot that we don't, we don't like stop and reflect, and that is just such a huge thing that we can do to kind of progress and change and really think about what we're thinking and feeling, and not just being on autopilot and and not just because that's how what's been done. You know what I mean, quote, unquote, um, it's always going to be changing and hopefully for the better. So if people would like to get a hold of you, what's the best way to connect with you?
Emily 48:26
Probably the best way to contact me is through my website, which is www dot coexistence, dot consulting. And folks can also follow me on Instagram. I don't post a lot on Instagram, but I do use it when, like I when I publish resources, or, like, when this podcast goes live, I'll definitely post on on Instagram. And so Instagram is just a good way for people to kind of stay in touch and kind of stay updated on my work. Can they can see when my projects are blossoming? That's I'll share that there, so they can find me on Instagram at Emily dot trinetti, and I can definitely share those links with you for you to share in the show notes, if you would. Like,
Chrissy 49:11
okay, perfect. And then also, you're on LinkedIn as well. Oh,
Emily 49:14
yeah. I mean, I'm like, Oh, I'm on all kinds of things, just a matter of what I use. But yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. I do use LinkedIn. I think, right.
Chrissy 49:23
No, you do. I see you. That's where I see. Your stuff is on LinkedIn. You know, a lot of the stuff that you're working on. So that's yeah,
Emily 49:30
follow me there too. Follow me on all the places, all the
Chrissy 49:35
places. Thank you, Emily, so much for being on and sharing all of your wisdom and experiences and your brain.
Emily 49:42
Thank you for having me. Chrissy, I am always happy to share my brain with you.
Chrissy 49:48
Okay, thank you. Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Emily, and I hope you learned a little more about humane education. I think it's so important to realize how each and every being has their own. Intelligence. Please reach out to Emily if you would like to talk with her, and if you have any questions, I know she would love to chat with you. Dogs truly are special beings and can change lives if we're open to what they have to teach us, this not only impacts you and your dog, but can also make a positive impact on the world. If you're finding value in this podcast, the best way to support us is by leaving a review up to five stars and sharing it with your family, friends and fellow dog lovers around the world. Lastly, I'd love to connect with you. You can find me on Instagram and Facebook at the nature of animals, and visit my [email protected] Until next time, be curious, show compassion and have courage. You.
