Emily 0:00
There's this perspective that we shouldn't care too much, and I think it's the opposite. I think we need to care a whole lot more. Today
Chrissy 0:07
I'm so happy to be talking again with Emily trinetti. We talked in the first season about the importance of critical reflection and the benefits of humane education. And if you haven't listened to that episode yet, it's episode number six from season one, and we'll put the link in the show notes. This time around, we dive deeper into exactly what humane education is and how we can implement with our dogs and into our everyday lives. This is such an important topic in the climate of the world today, and I feel the shift needs to happen in our society to keep progressing us forward. And as you listen to this episode, think of ways that you can integrate it into your life and let me know what you come up with. Welcome to the dogs of our lives. Podcast with me. Chrissy Messick, this is where traditional training transforms into true connection and understanding with our dogs. As a certified dog trainer, behavior consultant and interspecies communicator with a background in high level sports medicine, I bring a unique functional approach to understanding our dogs by integrating body, mind, heart and soul. Join us for insights, stories and practical wisdom that will help you prevent problems before they start and build a deeper bond with your animal companion before we get into today's episode, let me ask you a question, how well do you actually know your dog? Why not take my quiz to find out? You can find the link in the show notes. Now let's dig in. Hello. Emily trinetti, hello, hey. I'm so glad you're back for part two of our important conversation.
Emily 1:37
Thank you. I'm so glad to be here.
Chrissy 1:39
Okay, okay, so for the people that haven't heard our first episode with you, they can go back and listen to that, and we'll put that in the show notes as well, but I'll just do a quick intro again. We met each other, I don't know how many years ago, six years ago, seven years ago, through the Boulder Valley Humane Society, where we started volunteering together, and we've just kind of gone on our paths and but we've stayed connected because we have the similar values and how we approach interacting with, you know, animals and humans and stuff like that. So I just wanted to to introduce you again real quick. Can you tell people a little bit about yourself, where you live and the dogs in your life right now?
Emily 2:26
of course. So first, I just want to say, Chrissy, I think it's been like, maybe nine years, like, I think we're getting old, and so I think it's, I think it's been a little bit, yeah, but it's been a good almost decade of being being friends and colleagues, but yeah, my name is Emily trinetti. My pronouns are she her? I'm an educator, consultant and scholar practitioner, living in Rochester, New York with my spouse and my two senior dogs, Aldo and Ayla. How old are they now? Gosh, you're gonna make me do math. Aldo, I think, just turned 14 in January, and ayla is about 13, I believe. And she, she was a, you know, we got her from a shelter, so we weren't completely sure on her age, but, but, yeah, they're about 13 and 14. I think they're, they're old dogs. Oh
Chrissy 3:22
my gosh, they, I feel like I still can see them as, like, four years old.
Emily 3:27
Yeah, I know. I know. And I will say they especially Ayla, like they've aged very gracefully, and they're doing pretty well. I mean, of course, you know older dogs, they do come with their challenges, but overall, they are doing really well and are still keeping me busy.
Chrissy 3:47
Oh, I love that you've been a few places, and so now you've settled in New York, but we did meet in Colorado.
Emily 3:55
Yeah, yep, yep. I grew up in New York, and then after I graduated from my undergrad and kind of moved around to a few different places. Different places, including Colorado, and that was where we spent, I think, the most time of the different places. We lived outside in New York, and definitely was one of my, one of my favorite places, and definitely, definitely met some of my favorite people there, including you, and now we are back in New York so that we can be closer to our family. Yeah,
Chrissy 4:25
now I'm so happy to have met you when you're out here. I love that connection. Thank you. Okay, so how has your relationship with your dogs and other non human animals throughout your life impacted how you approach your relationship with other species, including farmed animals and wildlife.
Emily 4:42
I think I dug into this a little bit in our last conversation, so I'll kind of, I'll try to share kind of a condensed version, and hopefully that will inspire folks to check out our last episode together. Yeah, I've had so many impactful relationships and interactions with other. Companion animals throughout my life and my career. You know, I've worked in and volunteered in shelters and vet clinics and other animal care settings. And so I think those experiences, and of course, especially my experiences, you know, sharing my life with my dogs, with Ayla, with Aldo, and my cat, Nora, who passed away a couple years ago, like, all of this just really, really inspired me to learn more about how other animals experience the world, maybe counter intuitively. Like an important part of that process is also recognizing and, like, appreciating our limitations in that, or at least my limitations in that, right, like I will always be limited in my understanding of what it's like for, you know, my dogs to see the world through their noses, or what it's like for a cat who can hear sounds, you know, higher frequency sounds that are undetectable to humans, right? Like, will always be kind of limited in what it's like to be another animal. But I think despite some of these sensory differences, you know, we really have no reason to believe that, like other animals, are vastly different and how they emotionally experience the world, you know, like they can clearly feel like pain and fear and joy and love and so, you know, like as someone who was caring for dogs and cats, including, you know, the ones I shared my home with, I became so passionate about promoting positive welfare for them, and then it also just became harder for me to not apply this like empathy and compassion to other species. So, you know, the song birds and squirrels outside my window and to the chickens in my neighbor's backyard, and then to the chickens that we maybe don't see that are like living in factory farms, and then to cows and pigs and mice and snakes and even spiders. I will say spiders was really hard for me, because spiders scare me, but I have come so far and how I respond to spiders and how, you know, like it's it really is like a practice of, you know, deepening our empathy for other animals. It's become my life's work to try to inspire folks to recognize that we're all living in these rich, multi species communities that we impact every day and in so many ways, right? Like, through our choices and behaviors, you know, we're, we're in relation with each other, and we don't even, even if we don't know it right? Like, I think sometimes we even myself. Like, I think of like a relationship as a higher, the next level, like, if there's you interact with other beings, but a relationship is another level. But I think that you know, in some ways, if you think about the impact that we can have on someone that we barely know or don't even know like that impact can be huge. And I think it can be helpful to kind of reframe our ways of thinking about other beings as like we are in relation with them. We are, you know, we we have. We influence each other, and so at least for me, like my personal mission is to make these relationships as like, healthy and equitable as possible. And, you know, try to ensure that at least every animal, including every human, that I'm in relation with, is feeling safe. I'm participating in their joy and that we are in community with each other. So, yeah, that's kind of where my mind goes when I'm thinking about, kind of my own evolution of, of how I think about other animals and and just other beings. You know that all it all kind of started with just my caring for the animals, the companion animals in my life?
Chrissy 8:41
Yeah, I think the intention that we have when we have interactions with humans and non human animals, they can feel that. They can feel that intention. I will be walking ginger, our dog, and I'll have a conversation with a squirrel, and the squirrel will just kind of sit there, look at me, start to come down the tree, and then Ginger's like, oh, no, you don't ruff, ruff, ruff. And I love just watching other animals and seeing what they're doing and watching them and trying to connect with them on an intentional level without words and learning about their world, coexisting. I mean, that's the name of your business, coexisting with everything. What is it? Officially? Emily,
Emily 9:30
oh, my business name, coexistence consulting. Yeah, there you
Chrissy 9:34
go. So coexisting with all animals. For some reason, I have weird interactions with dogs who I've never met before, or turkeys that just wander into our yard, or a bear that wanders into our backyard, or Bobcats that walk by, or coyotes. So nice for us to be able to coexist together and not see it as our world. You know, it's not our world only. It's we're all living together. So I love that. I love love how you explained all that. Yeah, thank you. You have a rich education. We talked about a little bit in non human animals, and I talked about that in my intro before we got on. But can you tell our audience what exactly you were doing right now?
Emily 10:20
Yeah, so I am currently spending the bulk of my time teaching. I'm an adjunct professor for the anthrozoology Graduate Program at Canisius University. I'm teaching, currently teaching a course that I developed called shelters, rescues and sanctuaries. And then I'm also an adjunct professor of, or adjunct instructor of animal behavior for Husson University. And then, last but not least, I offer education and consulting through my business coexistence consulting. So yeah, those are the things that are keeping me busy these days. Yeah,
Chrissy 10:54
can you share a bit about what kept pushing you to get your doctorate?
Emily 10:58
You know, it's funny, because I think we also chatted a little bit about this in our last episode together. But I was, you know, I've been thinking about this more, and I realized that there's kind of another piece of this journey that I tend to forget about often when I'm answering questions like this. You know, I tend to focus so much on, like my personal and professional experiences working with other animals, which obviously is so pivotal. But I think another big reason, or another piece, that played a role in why I pursued my doctorate, and why I chose this specific doctorate that I chose is that always been like a communicator, right, like, I mean, of course, I've always felt deeply connected to other animals. I've always been like a highly sensitive, empathic person, but I've also just always been like communicating with others and sharing like I started writing stories and poetry at a really young age. I actually participated in public speaking contests when I was like, in middle school and high school, I was a photographer. My bachelor's is in Journalism and Communication. Like, sometimes I joke that, like my Bachelor's has nothing to do with what I'm doing now, but I think it does, you know, like, I think I need to give that more credit, because I think, like all of these are examples of communicating information, like communicating and teaching about other ways to perceive the world, and so when I started working with dogs, it didn't take me long to start teaching about dogs. Can't remember if I mentioned I don't think I mentioned this, actually, in our last episode. But shortly after I moved to Colorado, I became certified in canine massage through the Rocky Mountain School of animal acupressure and massage, and shortly after that, I did some assistant teaching for them, and then I started teaching webinars for them, and I did that for a couple of years. And kind of as I was doing that, I was working in other settings with other animals, companion animals, you know, I just was becoming more passionate about behavior and like the relationships that people have with other animals. So I ended up, you know, pursuing different credentials and behavior and training. And then did my Master's in anthrozology. During the anthrozology program, I took a course on humane education because I was, you know, interested in education, and I just found that core that course. And then I also ended up attending a presentation by zo Weil, who's the founder, co founder, of the Institute for Human education. During the Anzo or the anthrozoology program, I started to really see the power of education, and so I kind of just continued to teach in different ways. I was teaching webinars, eventually started speaking at conferences, started developing a continuing education course for in dog behavior for a university, and the person I was collaborating with for that continuing ed course, she had just completed her EDD so her Doctorate of Education and this kind of, like, sparked my curiosity. I was like, hmm, that's an interesting degree. I'd never heard of it my you know, I always thought PhD was, like, what you would get, and I just didn't feel like that was the right fit for me. And, you know, there are certainly people like in my master's program who, like, they knew they were gonna go for a PhD after their masters. And like, I was just kind of like, Yeah, that's probably not gonna be me. Around the same time that I started to learn about this, like, what's an EDD? And like, see, you know, learn from my friend colleague who had completed an EdD program. I heard that the Institute for humane education was partnering with Antioch University to offer an EDD specializing in humane Ed and I was like, This is it? This is perfect. Antioch has a University has a lot of really similar values as I have in terms of their approach to education and social justice. And of course, I love the Institute for humane education and their. Mission. And so I realized that it was this opportunity to like, refine my skills as an educator, and kind of go beyond just teaching about dogs and cats, which I love and is important, but I also really wanted to learn how to better inspire humans to like, expand our circles of compassion, to include all beings. So So yeah, that's what I did. I applied for the program, and I got in and spent a few years going through the whole process. Throughout that process, my perspectives continued to change and evolve and and here we are today.
Chrissy 15:37
Yay. So today for this chat, let's talk specifically about humane education, because last time, we spent a lot of our discussion on critical thinking skills and reflection. So can you tell us what exactly humane education is?
Emily 15:54
Humane education is actually really interesting. It has a pretty long history. So you know, as a field, it started taking shape in like the eight late 1800s which I was surprised to learn about. But since then, it has significantly evolved, at least in some circles. Like in many ways, it's kind of largely been a movement to, like, encourage children to be kind to non human animals. But there have been, like, some trailblazers, like zoell and the Institute for humane education to really expand humane education's mission to like a more comprehensive approach. So this kind of comprehensive approach to humane education is kind of reflected in how I define it. After, you know, years of being in this world, I define humane education as like an educational practice that teaches and inspires critical thinking, empathy and compassionate action and how humans interact with all animals, including humans and the more than human world. That's kind of the way that I define humane Ed. You might you know, meet other folks who define it a little bit differently, but I feel like this is a really nice kind of a way to define humane ed that that is inclusive of a lot of the different thoughts and approaches to to humane education.
Chrissy 17:13
I knew your definition was going to be much more global than mine. Mine is like, be nice to others,
Emily 17:24
yeah, teaching,
Chrissy 17:26
when you're teaching others, be nice, yes,
Emily 17:28
yeah, that's, I mean, that's pretty important. That's a big part of it, yeah.
Chrissy 17:34
So thank you for your for explaining it in your way. Why do you feel is so important to teach students and anyone who lives with another species or the same species about humane education?
Emily 17:48
That's a good question. I think in many ways, those of us who care about and work with other animals, we are humane educators for those who work with other animals, yes, but also even for those of us who just share our lives with them. You know, just by by being a person who cares about another being, we are modeling for those around us how to be compassionate, how to be empathetic. And so, like one of the the I guess, myths that I try to to change, you know, is, you know, education doesn't have to take place in a classroom, right? Like it's happening all of the time. You know, as dog behavior professionals like you and I are like, we often talk about how dogs are always learning, and that's true for humans too. You know, we're always learning by what others say and do, and so I think by kind of seeing ourselves as humane educators by like, kind of embodying this role of, I'm an everyday humane educator. I just made that up. We can good good by doing this, by thinking of ourselves in this way, we can inspire others just through our daily interactions, like just by being who we are. That's my short version of my answer to that question
Chrissy 19:02
that such an important point, because I talked to you about the digital course that I'm creating, and that is one aspect that I'm going to really talk about, is daily interactions with our dogs. They are learning same with my kids, they learn by watching us. I remember who quoted this, but it's a quote, and it says most actions are caught, not taught. It's so true, daily interactions, how we interact with them on a daily basis? Yeah, so important. How can we integrate this into our own lives as animal companion guardians? Can you give us some practical applications or examples for
Emily 19:41
sure? Yeah, this is an area where I've thought a lot about, right? Because I think so often when we talk about, like, some, some of these different concepts, like, especially something like humane education, that does refer to something that's really broad, sometimes it's almost like, referred to as, like a, like a philosophy or something, right? Like, it's, it's hard to kind. Of grasp what it is, and especially how to do it, you know, like, especially if I with me, like talking about this and like integrating it into our, you know, daily lives. Well, what is that really? So this is something I've thought about a lot. You know, as I mentioned, I define it as I define humane education as a practice, you know, that inspires critical thinking, empathy and compassionate action. I mention those again because I really think that there are ways that we can integrate those little pieces into our day to day lives. And so, you know, I think one of the most powerful ways that we can all do this is by talking with each other, having discussions, engaging and meaningful dialog, like you and I are doing today, and I think, you know, a discussion, kind of, you know, one that's rooted in humane education, is one that includes empathizing with with the people that we're communicating with, you know, really trying to see the other's perspective, and kind of approaching that conversation, that conversation as a way to, like, get curious together, right? You know, we talked about critical thinking and reflection in our last episode together. But I really think that it's so important to the conversations that we have with other people, you know, like, and then we can model critical thinking in those conversations and and I don't mean like, these have to be some like, you know, obviously you and I, like, sat down and scheduled this discussion, right? It doesn't have to be that. It could be, you know, a conversation you're having with your spouse or your kid. You know that just happens in the moment. And you're you realize that it's an opportunity of, oh, I can kind of model my own critical thinking by questioning my own beliefs and assumptions right now in front of my kid so they can see, oh, wow, my parent or my spouse is actively recognizing when they're like, Oh, I'm kind of biased about that, and then reflecting on it. And then we can kind of gently prompt others to do the same, you know, we can discuss how and why we maybe develop these biases or beliefs. We can talk about, oh, you know, this must be like, I must have this bias because of x, y, z, right? We can talk about, maybe, the role of norms. Unfortunately, a lot of our biases are shaped by like, oppressive systems. You know, there's these different entities and practices that that shape the way that we think. And so it can be really helpful to, you know, just kind of get curious about that together and say, Why do I think that way? Isn't that strange? What if I think about it this way? And just like having that discussion together, I think could be really powerful. And so, you know, like I said, we talked about this a little bit in the last episode, but I really think that critical thinking, critical reflection, you know, is critical to humane education. There's this really great quote that I want to share. I love to share this quote when I'm talking about critical thinking. He's an adult educator, and he was also my dissertation chair, Steven Brookfield. He has this great book called powerful techniques for teaching adults. And he said that thinking critically lies at the heart of acting powerfully. And I really believe that, like I believe that by promoting critical thinking, by engaging in critical thinking. You know, we can inspire humans and each other and ourselves to act powerfully for a more compassionate world. That's the first piece. Did you want to share anything before I share the second thing that I'm like the second piece to this practical application process,
Chrissy 23:39
you know, I'm thinking about the climate that we're in right now, with so much going on in the world, and, you know, always thinking of ways that, how can we help, or what can we do? What action can we take to help in the world? And this is what we can do. This is our way of helping navigate through this. So I think one it's super important right now in the climate that we're in, and also, I think it's like a mindset shift of when we're interacting with our dogs, whether we're working on navigating frustrating behaviors or trying to teach something. I think our wording and our mindset, even when we say obedience or command my dog. Let's think of different ways to interact with our dog. I want to teach my dog how to do this. Or how can I have a relationship with my dog instead of, quote, unquote, being like the superior person teaching a subordinate being something else. No, let's have a relationship and a conversation with our dog and interact in that way, you know, ginger, I want to teach you this. Can you do this, you know, and then see how she responds. Ginger is my dog, by the way. Have a conversation with them and. Of demanding or being obedient or good or bad. That's what I was thinking about when you were talking about humane education.
Emily 25:08
I love that example. And I think you know what you're talking about with how we can apply this to our you know, our interactions and relationships with our dogs. I think that what you're saying right now you just were modeling for our audience members, you know, like, one the process of critical thinking. You were like, Oh, this is really interesting. This is how I'm gonna, you know, apply this to how I'm thinking about my relationship with my dog. But you're also modeling a different way of being with another animal, right? That's powerful in and of itself, even if this wasn't a podcast that you're broadcasting to the world right by you being out in your community and having this kind of relationship with ginger. You know, when you talk about ginger, to your friends and your family, to your clients, you know, to the other people in your community, when you're talking about, oh, I taught her this, or we're working on this together. Those little subtle shifts in language are really powerful too. It gets people thinking about maybe I should think differently about my relationship with my dog too. So, yeah, I think that that's really important. And that kind of brings me to my next piece here, which is empathy. You know, we have to care in order to act, and that's what you're doing. You are you? Are you care for ginger, and that is powerful part of that too, kind of bringing us back to what I was talking about earlier, with perspectives, you know, to really take the actions that other beings actually need, like our dogs or the other animals in our communities, we also need to better understand their perspectives, like, what is it like to be ginger? What is it like to be the bird or the squirrel, right? And so as humane educators, we can encourage empathy for other animals, and a form of empathy that that includes taking the time to understand what the what the perspectives of others are life, what are their experiences like, and and really taking that seriously? So that means, you know, learning and teaching about other species, about their behavior, encouraging thoughtful observation of individual animals, you know, like you were talking about observing the squirrel, right? And just how, like just watching them and and watching them with curiosity, I think, is like taking it, that next step is something that we don't often do because we're so busy all the time. You know, like we we see the bird, we see the squirrel. You know, our dogs are there, our cats are present. But like we know, don't always really get curious about, what are they saying, like, this is a conversation, like, what is it, you know, like, what's, you know, what? What are they trying to tell us about how they're feeling? Or, you know, maybe, if they're not actively communicating with us, what are they communicating to the other beings in their environment? Or, how are they interacting with their environment? I think that curiosity piece is so important, and then also the other piece here is, especially when we're we are actively interacting with another animal. Is the importance of agency and consent, you know, like making sure that we are engaging in, you know, a mutually beneficial interaction in which, you know, everybody is an active and willing participant. In that way, we then start to see empathy lead us to compassion. Sometimes, I think empathy and compassion are kind of used interchangeably. Empathy is kind of like this. It's a process. It's an emotional process that enables humans to kind of acknowledge suffering and joy and to see and understand the experiences of another. But compassion is what really inspires action. It inspires action to like, decrease suffering, to improve well being. And so I think you know, if we're talking about, like, humane education and the skills that we can apply to our daily lives again like this is where modeling comes into play. We can model empathy and compassionate action. So you know when you are when you Chrissy are taking the approach of teaching ginger skills that help ginger feel safer, and you know in her world. And you know when you guys are both working through trying to better co exist together. You're taking compassionate action to have a better, a better relationship with ginger. We can also, you know, make more mindful choices in terms of what we eat or buy or what we do, you know, that impacts other animals and the more than human world or the natural world, and again, that's modeling for others to see. When I say modeling, you know, I mean, like I said, we're learning all the time. We're we're watching what others are doing, you know, inspired by just seeing how other people live their lives, right? Think sometimes we don't know. Know that there's another way of being until we witnessed it. You know, like Chrissy, you and I see this all the time with people when they're dogs. People grew up with dogs, they had a lifetime of experience with dogs, but then when they see another way of interacting with a dog, it can really change them. So I feel like that's another really important piece. The last thing I just want to mention about this kind of, or in response to this really great question that I clearly have a lot of thoughts about, is I feel like the other piece that is so important, and essentially, as you were saying, kind of like in this climate that we're in, not only like the actual climate, which is, you know, concerning, but like the the state of the world, I feel like we can also embody the role of humane educator by really being in community with and supporting other humans who are also taking action for a human, like a more humane world. You know, you know, maybe we do this through volunteering our time with, you know, at an organization, or donating to an organization that's doing this work, and maybe it's just simply being there for each other, like, I think that, in itself, is something that is really important and can really, really support these mind shifts that need to happen, because I think it can feel really isolating to care deeply about others, you know, especially other animals, and because of the way that society kind of views other animals as a whole. And like, I feel like I still and like judge especially, but men, you know, for like, caring so much about about other animals, you know, like I'm seen as too sensitive, like I'm weaker or something than other people, because I care, it doesn't feel good to feel that way, right? And so I think a lot of people turn that off inside of themselves. If we can help support each other and be there for each other, and make it normal to say it's a good thing to care, you know, we can kind of help unlock that's already inside of us. I think in many ways, humane education is like a way of thinking. It is kind of a philosophy. It's an approach to how you are in the world. That's how I interpret it. But yeah, there's so much more to it, too. And I hope that this conversation inspires folks to to dive deeper into humane education?
Chrissy 32:25
Yeah, I think so, and I think it is. It's like a cultural shift or a mindset shift, and how you talked about, you know, growing up having dogs throughout your life. Just remind me of me growing up in my childhood and thinking, is this the way life is growing up in a toxic environment, and thinking there has to be a better way to do this. I didn't like the environment, and so I was actively looking for a different way, but I was pushed to that because it was very uncomfortable and didn't feel right to me. But then there's people who are like, Okay, well, this is how it is, and they just kind of think that's how it is, and it's not really upsetting for them. But then they see a different way. And so it's interesting, the train of thought is like, well, this way has been fine, so why would I need to look at a different way? I think it's always looking at ways to to be better, to make the world better, to be more humane. It is like a cultural shift. It's a mindset shift. It's changing our way of thinking. And I think it's super important that we do that and help others do that with either other humans or non human animals. I don't think it matters, but I think it's a it's a good practice to get into,
Emily 33:45
for sure, it's interesting. You were talking about how, like, you know, sometimes there are things that are kind of normal and that we don't really think are problematic, but then when we, like, see another way, we're like, oh, actually, maybe I should do this differently. I think that there's something there too, for sure. You know, there are so many of our just normal daily practices that we just don't realize are problematic that impact others. You know, like I was in a call recently, it was like this cool little book club that I do sometimes, and this person brought up this example of how they were hit by a hurricane last year and tree fell down in their yard. There was a huge tree. There were birds and squirrels that had been living in this tree, and everybody was coming up to this person was like, Oh, I'm so glad that you're okay, and I'm so sorry about your car, because I guess it fell on their car, and they were worried about the human and their stuff, and this particular amazing human was like, Yeah, we're okay, but I'm so I'm worried about the birds, you know, and like, we don't think about how forest is being demolished for housing development. Like every one of those trees is a home for somebody. Actual home. You know, this is the way my my mind works. Then I start thinking about what it must feel like to be a bird in your like in a nest who is caring for your family, it's your actual family, and then to suddenly feel that nest fall out from under you because someone's cutting down your tree, or your tree is falling down in hurricane or something. But many of us can't even fathom what that would be like, that intense, immediate loss and fear. You know, again, like this is just an example of like, whoa. Like, what if we think differently about these things? Most of us wouldn't even think twice about cutting down a tree. But when you start to bring awareness to how something like that can impact others so deeply, it really creates space, I think, for different ways of thinking, for different ways of doing things, and hopefully better ways of interacting with our world. And I think that that's kind of at like the foundation of humane education is really, really really looking at how we're impacting our world, how we can impact it in a positive way and not in a way that causes suffering.
Chrissy 36:09
Yep, I agree. And because I'm always like, oh the poor animal, and, you know, blah, blah, blah in a movie or, you know, in real life. And they're like, Oh, mom, here she goes. Well, it's true. I feel sorry for the animal as well.
Emily 36:26
Yeah, but and see like you doing that. I mean, you are, you know, you're modeling for your kids what it's like to be compassionate, to care about another animal. So much of how I feel about other animals, and like the empathy I feel, and like the compassion and action that I take, you know, is from, like, seeing my mom growing up. D is the person who, like, if an animal is hit on the side of the road, she will stop and, like, make sure they're okay, and move get help. She's was definitely my inspiration for that. Yeah. So I think, especially, like, as parents, I mean, for anybody, like, it's important to see other people care and for it to be normal and not considered like a fault, which is so weird to say there's this, this perspective that we shouldn't care too much, and I think it's the opposite. I think we need to care a whole lot more. Yeah, so
Chrissy 37:17
some exciting news. You co wrote a chapter in a new book that's coming out on March 11, but it can be pre ordered, correct? Yeah, yep, it
Emily 37:27
can be pre ordered. So
Chrissy 37:28
it's called Exploring topics in non human coexistence, passion, practice and presence. Yes, okay, so we'll definitely put the link in the show notes so people can easily find it. I want to see if you can give a little teaser, and can you give us an overview of the book and just tell us a little bit about the chapter that you co wrote?
Emily 37:49
Thank you so much for mentioning this. I'm really excited. The book. Chapter is called humane education, a pathway to compassionate coexistence, and I co wrote it with my dear friend and colleague, Macy Sutton, who I met in the EdD program. We both went through the EdD program together and the human education specialization. Yeah, we wrote this chapter, and it's it's very similar to what we've been talking about in this conversation. In the chapter, we talk about concept of compassionate coexistence, like what it means to us. What that includes is how it's not just about like existing in the same place, but rather about really being in community with another, learning from each other and caring for one another. And we also talk about humane education as a strategy, as a practice for animal advocates to promote compassionate coexistence. So we talk a lot about some of the things we've chatted about today. There's sections in there on critical thinking and empathy and compassionate action. It's a great little chapter, and I really hope people read it. But the book, the book as a whole, is a really powerful collection of writings on fostering coexistence between humans and the more than human world, it really brings into focus like how non human animals are oppressed by humans, and how these forms of oppression are bound together with the various forms of oppression that humans face. Looks at how speciesism and racism and ableism and all of these different forms of oppression are woven together and how we can hopefully start to change things. You know, it really, the book really describes some different possibilities for radical change in support of inner species coexistence. So yeah, if it's something that listeners might be interested in, and it is available at major bookstores, but my new favorite bookstore is bookshop.org I love it because I learned that it actually you can buy books online, but it supports local independent bookstores. So that's the one I've been using lately.
Chrissy 40:02
Oh, that's cool. What's it
Emily 40:03
called? Again, it's just bookshop.org,
Chrissy 40:07
okay, cool. Thanks for a little tidbit. Yeah. All right, is there any nugget of wisdom, or anything else that you would like to share with our audience? Ah,
Emily 40:17
yes. I remember this from from last time the nugget of wisdom question, so what if I, like, dropped a boulder of wisdom on our audience? Would that be okay, instead of an I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I only have nuggets.
Chrissy 40:33
Do multiple nuggets, multiple nuggets.
Emily 40:35
I do really think that there's something powerful and like in really pausing and considering how we might better coexist with, you know, not only our dogs, but with all beings. You know, as we kind of mentioned a little bit today, like we get really caught up in, like, the busyness and chaos of our world. I think it's so hard to imagine, like an alternative, you know, let alone, like, think that we might be part of the solution. You know, I think we just, we end up just going through our day to day lives and, you know, just thinking like that, this is how it is, and this is how it's going to be. I've definitely had moments of feeling like powerless, especially recently, I try, at least myself, like, to really create moments where I can just stop and reflect on what our world could look like, especially if we all prioritized compassion and equity and community. That's the kind of world I want to live in. So what are the actions then that we each need to take to make this a reality? How can we all be humane educators, then let's, like, get out and do the things you know, like, let's make this better, more humane world happen, because we really, really need it to happen. And by we, I don't mean just we humans, but like all beings, we really need this better world. And so I hope that this conversation maybe inspires a little, even just a little bit of like, hey, what can I do to help make this world a little bit better than that? Is that's a win for me. That's my boulder of wisdom, or a nugget of wisdom. What do you think, Chrissy, it's a boulder.
Chrissy 42:18
Oh, amazing. Okay, what's the best way for people to reach you, if they want to chat with you or learn from you? So
Emily 42:26
they can contact me through my website, which is www.coexistence.consulting. And folks can also follow me on Instagram. I don't really post a lot on Instagram, but I do use it to share like resources and updates about my work, so you can connect with me there. It's at Emily dot trinetti, Chrissy reminded me last time we had this conversation that I'm also on LinkedIn, so you can find me there. All
Chrissy 42:55
right, Emily, as always, it's wonderful talking with you, and I'm sure we'll have another episode at some point down the road,
Emily 43:02
I would love that. I love these conversations with you, and I love this podcast. I think that it's just, it's so cool to see all of the different people you've brought together who care about dogs and the world. And I'm really glad that I'm I'm a part of this, this wonderful group of people who have made it to your podcast. So thank you.
Chrissy 43:23
Thanks, Emily, thank you for joining us today. I hope you discovered a valuable nugget you can implement right away with your dog. If you enjoyed the episode, please follow, rate and share with fellow dog lovers who might benefit. Don't forget to take our How well do you know your dog quiz? You'll find the link in the show notes until next week. Happy tales you.
